Re: We need a better suggestion, not a complaint.


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Posted by Maureen on October 12, 2002 at 02:13:20:

In reply to: We need a better suggestion, not a complaint. posted by Lauren on October 11, 2002 at 22:37:31:

Hi Lauren,

I have made suggestions throughout. Other people including you have
made suggestions. I just don't see the suggestions being picked up.
I am not putting down the microscope thing. I am asserting that what
is viewed under the microscope needs to be controlled. Then the
microscope offers one way to assess what is there. I have not said
that the microscope is a bad idea. Just that it can't tell you
anything that can be relied upon about any specific powder unless
controls are in place to follow the custody of that henna powder.
This can be considered a complaint or a sugestion for what is needed.

One thing that makes whatever methods I use more reliable Lauren is
that I can say without a bit of uncertainty that the henna powder
being assessed is directly from that exporter. There is no doubt
about that and no questions the exporter raises about that. I
haven't used that term "superior." I reject that as it requires some
sort of ranking. What I do works for me because my people who export
powders to me trust it and have responded to it.

When someone wants to open up a conversation about how to look at
obtaining reliable samples, count me in on that conversation.

If suppliers ever wish to establish a language for speaking about
henna powder that we operationalize and agree upon. Count me in on
that conversation as well. But until that happens, we each use our
own subjective definitions of a henna powder. We choose language
that best define the powder in words that we hope people understand.
What I imagine is that everyone does their best to do that. If it
falls short on clarity, that is a shortcoming with use of language.
It is often not precise. It will remain that way until people decide
to operationalize the language and provide a key to exactly what each
word means. I don't know if people really want to get into that.
But that is possible.

I wonder how much of that percision is required for henna powder
given the purpose for which henna powder is used and has been used
for all of the thousands of years? What size does the particle have
to be before it clogs a #3 tip? Doesn't that have something to do
with what one does with their henna powder...the recipe...the other
ingredients...how much sugar is added...how much lemon juice or honey
or okra or egg? Is the #3 tip the yardstick or the #1 Peblo or the
00 cake decorating tip? What about for people who want to use a
toothpick, syringe?

How is anyone objectively measuring how much dye is in a batch of
henna powder? How is anyone determining what sort of dye it is? I
have a very subjective measure. Any is too much.

I am interested in any serious dialogue that doesn't all ready have a
forgone conclusion.

There are two sides of the question, "Why not a public list?" The
other side is "Why a public list?" I am imagining that you are
referring to the post further down about not tossing out the henna
powder of suppliers who sent something other than agreed upon and you
suggested not tossing the powder but rather to post the name on the
forum??? If that is the list you are referring to, I have to ask
myself the following: What is the purpose of the list? What would I
want to accomplish by the creation of and participation in the
creation of such a list? My belief is that one does the least that
is necessary to provide the results desired. So once one knows
exactly why a list is generated, then one can decide what one expects
as an outcome for having it. I believe that tossing the powder and
moving on is one approach to dealing with an unreliable exporter.
Memberships in organizations has over the years proven to me to be a
valuable way to network and share information with other people with
whom I am connected through occupation. I have never found in any
association or organization I have belonged to over the years the
need to generate a "public list." Mainly what the goal has been has
been to try to alter the behavior of some group or business or
individual that we each had to deal with individually or as separate
agencies or businesses. Usually we shared experiences of what worked
and did not work and determined why it worked or didn't work so that
as individuals or groups or businesses or agencies, we empowered
ourselves as oppose to attempting to disempower someone else or
another business etc. It has been an effective model and one that
has worked for me and I have witnessed it work for others. So it
depends on what one is ultimately after.

Maureen

 


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