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Posted by Nick on October 12, 2002 at 13:48:06:

In reply to: Re: I agree! posted by Maureen on October 12, 2002 at 04:23:58:

So far, you've said you want control in the samples... yet you've not
given one suggestion for how you think this should be accomplished.
By the way you've chosen to react to this issue, it appears that you
think this is beneath you. This is simply an observation on my part.

Zimra's words hit the nail on the head... she had the guts to say
what the general suspicion was. Note, not necesaryily *your*
suspicion, just in general:

: but this crazy
: : idea that someone is purposefully and maliciously compromising
: : samples

If you do not think this is happening, and refuse to try and improve
the standards for controlling the collection of samples... what
exactly is the issue?

Zimra's also entitled to use adjectives... "paranoid" being one of
them. Note she did not say 'maureen and noli are paranoid.' She was
referring to the idea she had mentioned earlier about "this crazy
idea that someone is purposefully and maliciously compromising
samples." It was the idea that was paranoid... yes you can describe
an idea as paranoid in the English language.

I guess what is ruining this the most for us is your refusal to
suggest a better way... if you can think of a more controlled
alternative, i'd recomend that you provide it for discussion. Unless
you still see it as unnecesary, and we should abandon this altogether.

: Actually, this whole thing could be resolved if there were more
: adequate control on collection of samples.
: Isn't it interesting where the labelling keeps coming from. Zirma,
: find those words and accusations....
: but this crazy
: : idea that someone is purposefully and maliciously compromising
: : samples
: Those words just came from you...nowhere else.
: And so did this one:
: is, quite frankly, paranoid.
: I don't think you are qualified to throw around that label. No
: matter how you wish to view this situation and conclusion you want
: to draw and decision you wish to matter what words you
: choose to refer to those with concerns, none of that changes the
: of reliability of that collection of those samples. See, a really
: good process for collecting samples would eliminate the possibility
: for anyone either putting anything into or taking anything out of a
: sample. Why...because those possibilities are "controlled" for.
: is not paranoia to call for good science. It is common sense. And
: of course, your thoughts that suppliers might doctor their henna
: powder or other wise alter it would not be paranoia. They would be
: unnecessary thoughts when good controls are in place for data
: collection.
: You see, this is what the lack of those controls on data collection
: leads to...this is what no chain of custody for samples
: breeds...suspicion. I am avoiding the suspicion and calling for
: controls. Instead of calling names...I am calling for controls.
: Instead of calling for people to "put up with it"...I am calling
: a situation that does not leave anything to "put up with."
: Put up with it amounts to "shut up and let us do what we want to do
: with your stuff." I don't think so. That doesn't even sound
: Maureen


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