Woops some typos

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: Sorry, I'm not the best typist. Here are some corrections: : euphrates is now in Arabic " furaat" rather than "futaat" : also etymology rather than etynology : also henna rather than heena. : and the ones you find here and there that are syntactic, please : forgive :-) as I hardly edit webboard postings:-) : I should start doing that, though. : Regards : Babaganooj : : : First, I applaud the research you have been doing on this topic, : : especially the sholarliness of the approach, you certainly : : are way ahead of something I was going to suggest as well. : : Mainly looking at how the root of the word of henna manifests : : itself in other semitic languages. I do admit my limitations : : when it comes to other semitic languages, and would point out : : that Arabic is familiar grounds for me as a native speaker, as well : : as maybe a little insight in its mechanisms. Other semitic : languages : : are areas of studies by themselves. : : I also would thank you for your research of other semitic : : languages related to henna, for it really is enlightening, : : and you know what, it further supports ( at least when it : : comes to Arabic) maybe why there is a turn off for men regarding : : its odor. Maybe its semantic reference (femininty as tenderness : : is tied to in general) is a contributing factor as well. : : Now here is also a point by point follow-up on your post. : : Before that, I would like to attract your attention to the : following : : disclaimer. When it comes to Arabic, my judgement is that : : of a native speaker with a little insight of its workings.when it : : comes to others, this judgement is based on speculations. : : : Definitely a moment of joy! : : : Your discussion of the connection of henna and tenderness : : : linguistically is one I've been looking at in the dictionary for : : : ages....(the Wehr Arabic-English). Thank you, thank you! : : : : : : Now ..... if I can ask further..... : : : Looks like in Ugaritic (2000 BCE Syria) the root for henna is : KPR, : : . : : In fact the thing that comes to mind is the historic sound : : change of P into F in some semitic languages (euphrates : : river for example is now futaat in Arabic, and my guess : : would be the plant Kafoor which has an effect similar : : to what in the west is reffered to as Peter Salt. A substance : : that contributes to alleviating sexual desire (Libido) : : However, I would not be surprised to see the semantic shift : : that sometimes happens here and there. An example of change : : of meaning between semitic languages can be seen in Beit Lahem : : for example (the house of bread=lahem) Now in Arabic Lahem : : was later to undergo semantic change to mean meat. : : Even within the same language semantic change has been : : witnessed. Like in ancient (pre-Islamic) poetry the word : : for wine is what we, Arabs, now use for coffee : : What I am getting at here is to see if the root KPR after : : having unergone sound change (KFR) and got into Arabic : : might have also undergone semantic change. Certainly something : : worth looking into. : : : I'm guessing this is related to Kopher in ancient Egyptian and : : Cyprium : : : and Camphire in Latin. However the root for the word "red" in : the : : : Canaanite language is "chna" which I believe to be related to the : : : Greek Kino for henna, and henna in the Semitic languages. Am I : on : : the : : : right track here? : : You are undoubtedly searching for the needle in the right : : pile or sack. : : : Here's a further hunch ..... which seems to have been tripping up : : : scholars previously .... does the KPR root refer to the same : plant : : as : : : CHNA? Is the difference because of the different linguistic : : groups, : : : or do the two words refer to the two different uses of the plant: : : KPR : : : referring to the flowers and perfume and CHNA referring to the : : leaves : : : used for dye? I found a Babylonian text that uses both, and in : the : : : context, it makes sense that both perfume and dye were being used : : in : : : the same preparation; that would incline me to believe that the : two : : : words expressing different uses of the same plant (like wheat and : : : straw) . : : To tell you the truth, I am not familiar with this, but I am : : equally fascianted by the shift and change here and there : : that some words might undergo. : : What is also fascinating, and I'm sure it didn't escape your : : attention is by looking deeply into those issues (etynology) : : one would grasp the concept of henna throughout the ages, : : such as "correlation with redness" a physical property, : : tenderness " abstract property" etc..... : : : Of course, after the 6th century and spread of Arabic with : Islam, : : : things get a whole heck of a lot simpler. : : : I've been craving a good linguist to talk to about this for AGES! : I : : am : : : absolutely thrilled to find someone to ask these questions to! : : : I work with Arabic in henna patterns because that was part of : henna : : in : : : the 10th to 15 centuries, (parallel to the calligraphy in art) : and : : I : : : am fascinated with it, but I've never been any good at learning : : other : : : languages. I just try to copy without messing up. : : Thank you for your compliments, and I would refer you back to : : the disclaimer above. Keeping in mind that this topic : : could be extensive as well, if you want to track down : : heena use and utterance in each and every semitic language. : : It will lead you into almost a research type analysis : : that depending on the depth of the approach could cover : : pages and pages. In fact, I for one, would find such : : research rewarding from a linguistic angle to say the least. : : : And I would love to see that bazaar in Aleppo. I know it was : full : : of : : : henna, textiles, wonderful things 4000 years ago ..... (still : : waiting : : : for repairs on the transporter beam AND the time machine) : : : You've been through a US university? (sorry about Americans .... : : : chronically thick subspecies) Which one? I did UCLA and I teach : at : : : Kent State. : : Don't worry, in fact, I graduated about 7 years ago : : from University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign, with : : an MA in Linguistics ( My focus was on Arabic and English) : : Too bad I didn't do much in the field, save maybe for teaching : : in a few colleges here and there. For the most part, it seems : : that majors that are geared towards technology are : : hailed as the thing to do nowadays. I developed a hobby : : for computers, and spent more time with it ( have been attracted to : : the idea of helping people in the middle east bypass censorships : : that attempt at restricting freedom of expression). Still, though, : : once a linguist, always a linguist. Like you're doomed : : to it or something:-) : : Now, though, you are helping me refresh my memories : : of the field, and the books I have been neglecting : : or have already given away. : : Next time I'm by a public library, or have some access : : to some semitic dictionaries, I'd look into some of the stuff : : that you have been referring to. : : : : My best regards to you : : Babaganooj

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