Fact checking (was: Re: I received this last night and .........)

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Posted by Sarah Jasmijn on September 14, 2001 at 18:30:51:

In reply to: I received this last night and ......... posted by Sienna on September 14, 2001 at 16:03:39:

Hi,

: it. I hope this doesn't offend anyone.

The only thing that offends me is misinformation. Regrettably, there is quite a lot of it in this editorial:

: When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans
: who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled
: on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.

The situation was somewhat more politically clouded than that. And anybody can expect to be insulted and swindled on the streets of ANY major city anywhere in the WORLD at least some of the time.

: When earthquakes hit
: distant cities, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This
: spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody
: helped.

Most 'wealthy' countries pour a significant amount of the national income into foreign aid. I know the Netherlands (where I live) does. Most wealthy countries don't expect the same thing in return: they have money already. The Netherlands didn't get monetary aid after either the 'Bijlmerramp' (plane crashed on a couple of thirty story appartment buildings) or 'Enschede' (fireworks factory exploded close to built up area, flattening a whole neighbourhood). We didn't expect this either. When wealthy countries send aid to other wealthy countries, it is usually in the form of expertise or (wo)manpower. Our 'rampenidentificatie team' (disaster identification team) is waiting for a plane to be allowed into the states RIGHT NOW, so they can HELP.

: The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars
: into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are
: writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans.

Even if you do a lot of good things, that doesn't mean you are exempt from criticism. Also, freedom of the press makes for varied reporting, where many different points of view will be expressed.

: I'd like to see
: just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the
: United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country
: in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the
: Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why don't they fly
: them? Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American
: Planes?

Fokker (dutch airplane factory which a couple of years was taken over by a german company), and Airbus (German/Brittish/French, and in the past also Dutch) & Concorde (Brittish/French) are all European airplane builders. They are serious, real competitors to Boeing. (And they also were in 1973 when (according to Shannon) this article was written.)

: Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man
: or woman on the moon?

Other nation's space programs (Russia comes to mind, and the European Space Agency, as well as Japan and Australia) have done significant things in space.

: You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios.
:
: You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles.
:
: You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon -
: not once, but several times - and safely home again.

Not only do I think this is a severely limited view of Japanese and German technological achievement, but I also think radios and automobiles are at least as useful as a moonlanding. Again, praising one thing is fine, but why put down something else to make your point?

: I would hope that each of you would send this to as many people as
: you can and emphasize that they should send it to as many of their
: friends until this letter is sent to every person on the web. I am
: just a single American that has read this.

Please, I agree that what has happened is terrible, and I understand the feelings that spark an editorial like this (or the repeating of it). I am not denying that the United States has done some remarkable things. I just don't think that misinformation about events or nations is a meaningful way to talk about them. So lets all try to limit the spread of misinformation, please!
Some of the above statements about other countries could *almost* be called slanderous, and that doesn't do anybody any good. Not now, not ever.

Thank you for listening,

Sarah Jasmijn

Follow Ups

Re: Fact checking (was: Re: I received this last night and .........) Sarah B 18:39:12 9/14/2001 (1)
- True then, true now! Re: Fact checking Sarah Jasmijn 18:51:39 9/14/2001 (0)

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: Hi, : : : it. I hope this doesn't offend anyone. : : The only thing that offends me is misinformation. Regrettably, there is quite a lot of it in this editorial: : : : When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans : : who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled : : on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it. : : The situation was somewhat more politically clouded than that. And anybody can expect to be insulted and swindled on the streets of ANY major city anywhere in the WORLD at least some of the time. : : : When earthquakes hit : : distant cities, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This : : spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody : : helped. : : Most 'wealthy' countries pour a significant amount of the national income into foreign aid. I know the Netherlands (where I live) does. Most wealthy countries don't expect the same thing in return: they have money already. The Netherlands didn't get monetary aid after either the 'Bijlmerramp' (plane crashed on a couple of thirty story appartment buildings) or 'Enschede' (fireworks factory exploded close to built up area, flattening a whole neighbourhood). We didn't expect this either. When wealthy countries send aid to other wealthy countries, it is usually in the form of expertise or (wo)manpower. Our 'rampenidentificatie team' (disaster identification team) is waiting for a plane to be allowed into the states RIGHT NOW, so they can HELP. : : : The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars : : into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are : : writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans. : : Even if you do a lot of good things, that doesn't mean you are exempt from criticism. Also, freedom of the press makes for varied reporting, where many different points of view will be expressed. : : : I'd like to see : : just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the : : United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country : : in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the : : Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why don't they fly : : them? Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American : : Planes? : : Fokker (dutch airplane factory which a couple of years was taken over by a german company), and Airbus (German/Brittish/French, and in the past also Dutch) & Concorde (Brittish/French) are all European airplane builders. They are serious, real competitors to Boeing. (And they also were in 1973 when (according to Shannon) this article was written.) : : : Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man : : or woman on the moon? : : Other nation's space programs (Russia comes to mind, and the European Space Agency, as well as Japan and Australia) have done significant things in space. : : : You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. : : : : You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. : : : : You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon - : : not once, but several times - and safely home again. : : Not only do I think this is a severely limited view of Japanese and German technological achievement, but I also think radios and automobiles are at least as useful as a moonlanding. Again, praising one thing is fine, but why put down something else to make your point? : : : I would hope that each of you would send this to as many people as : : you can and emphasize that they should send it to as many of their : : friends until this letter is sent to every person on the web. I am : : just a single American that has read this. : : Please, I agree that what has happened is terrible, and I understand the feelings that spark an editorial like this (or the repeating of it). I am not denying that the United States has done some remarkable things. I just don't think that misinformation about events or nations is a meaningful way to talk about them. So lets all try to limit the spread of misinformation, please! : Some of the above statements about other countries could almost be called slanderous, and that doesn't do anybody any good. Not now, not ever. : : Thank you for listening, : : Sarah Jasmijn
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