Re: Alhambra book

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Posted by Catherine Cartwright Jones on November 6, 2001 at 18:19:44:

In reply to: Alhambra book posted by Lauren on November 6, 2001 at 13:19:14:

: I don't see the toes.

To my eye they're quite clear. There's some surface area degrading,
but they're there. The incision between the toes is not terribly
deep, and would probably have been more pronounced if the surface was
intact.

:Since her other features are so finely done,
: it makes sense that her toes would be more than a sketch.

The modeling of the toes is not inconsistant with other Levantine art
of the period. It's more generalized than Greek art, certainly.

:Since the
: toe-area is as smooth as her face where the top layer hasn't
: degraded, I assume that the toes are as originally scuplted save
some
: of the pigment has gone.

That's not smooth. I see toes.

I definitely see the red more on the
: underside, though.

this is consistant not only with Tanith/Anath portrayals in the
Levant, but it is consistant with written records of the henna
applications on young Levantine women in that period.

: I'm thinking those shoes look like the Moroccan
: red leather slippers. I don't know how far back those go.

Sandals were the norm for the period. I believe what I see here is
sandaled feet that were repainted with red paint every season and
there's a some paint buildup. I think also that devotees touched the
toes, which has taken off a bit of the definition from the top.

: Possible, but there are similar dark patches all over her skin where
: henna likely wouldn't go
.
It's difficult to evaluate dark patches. When they are symmetrical,
and well defined, I call them deliberate. When they're splotchy, I
call them crud. This one looks to be deliberate, and similar to tatto
and henna patterns. I could make a better call if I could see the
other hand. Anyway ... you can only see her face (harquused) and her
hands and feet. What other skin are you talking about? Or doyou mean
garment? There you can see splotches (crud) and deliberate stripes
that indicate folds or patterning.

So, how to evaluate?
One anwer, certainly, is to go see the thing in person. This is
crucial. Then, look for comparible pieces. She's more similar to
Levantine, Anatolian, maybe Palmyran, work than anything else. So,
you judge the quality of ornament, surface modeling and style on
those. The only ones of those where you can be certain of henna
evidence are the pottery pieces that have glaze intact. There's
little surface paint left on marble things. So, some of the evidence
from those pieces lends weight to the evaluating the markings as
probable henna. Better evidence comes from literary sources. There,
you can find abundant evidence that the women of that period in the
Levant regularly wore henna. That lends much more weight to the henna
interpretation. Then .... it's Tanit/Anath. She hennaed. She
harquused. No question there. Spain was in the right climate zone to
grow henna. So .... other evidence in several forms supports the
interpretation of markings as henna. BUT ... if I saw the same piece
in Finland .... I'd have to interpret doubtful marks as crud, and
shoes that happen to show toe lines, because there would be no other
supporting evidence for henna.

:
:
: I thought those were likely harquus, too. What do you mean by
: overpainted?
Not natural eyebrows .... either painted over with harquus paint or
indigo.

: Again, I'm unsure that's henna. I did look at that picture but
: decided it wasn't.

I'm talking about the OVERLEAF to 97, not the print on page 96. The
double color pic that crosses 98 and 99.

: in the same way and in the same colors that the hands, and on the
: left angel, feet are. The hands and feet we can see clearly are
: white and the lines between fingers and toes are clear.

Actually, I've seen many more pages from that manuscript (with the
angels), and many, though not all, of the angels have henna. There
are several variants of henna on these angels, and you can see black,
red, brown, fingertip and patterned henna on different angels. I
don't know if these are arbitrary assignments ... or illustrators were
swapping off pages, and one happened to really fancy henna. There's
considerable variation through the manuscript.

To make any of these judgements, you have to be able to support your
claim that it is or is not henna by more than just "it looks like".
That's where you have to really hit the books...... for botany,
historical descriptions, other art works, more pages in the
manuscript.

I'd guess that I've gone through 8,000 books and periodicals, and
gotten 800 solid hits with single or multiple references for henna.
My book fetish is truely obscene .... even in high school, the one
poor lad who fancied me only offered to carry my books home from
school ONCE. Others despaired.

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: : I don't see the toes. : : To my eye they're quite clear. There's some surface area degrading, : but they're there. The incision between the toes is not terribly : deep, and would probably have been more pronounced if the surface was : intact. : : :Since her other features are so finely done, : : it makes sense that her toes would be more than a sketch. : : The modeling of the toes is not inconsistant with other Levantine art : of the period. It's more generalized than Greek art, certainly. : : :Since the : : toe-area is as smooth as her face where the top layer hasn't : : degraded, I assume that the toes are as originally scuplted save : some : : of the pigment has gone. : : That's not smooth. I see toes. : : : : I definitely see the red more on the : : underside, though. : : this is consistant not only with Tanith/Anath portrayals in the : Levant, but it is consistant with written records of the henna : applications on young Levantine women in that period. : : : I'm thinking those shoes look like the Moroccan : : red leather slippers. I don't know how far back those go. : : Sandals were the norm for the period. I believe what I see here is : sandaled feet that were repainted with red paint every season and : there's a some paint buildup. I think also that devotees touched the : toes, which has taken off a bit of the definition from the top. : : : : : Possible, but there are similar dark patches all over her skin where : : henna likely wouldn't go : . : It's difficult to evaluate dark patches. When they are symmetrical, : and well defined, I call them deliberate. When they're splotchy, I : call them crud. This one looks to be deliberate, and similar to tatto : and henna patterns. I could make a better call if I could see the : other hand. Anyway ... you can only see her face (harquused) and her : hands and feet. What other skin are you talking about? Or doyou mean : garment? There you can see splotches (crud) and deliberate stripes : that indicate folds or patterning. : : So, how to evaluate? : One anwer, certainly, is to go see the thing in person. This is : crucial. Then, look for comparible pieces. She's more similar to : Levantine, Anatolian, maybe Palmyran, work than anything else. So, : you judge the quality of ornament, surface modeling and style on : those. The only ones of those where you can be certain of henna : evidence are the pottery pieces that have glaze intact. There's : little surface paint left on marble things. So, some of the evidence : from those pieces lends weight to the evaluating the markings as : probable henna. Better evidence comes from literary sources. There, : you can find abundant evidence that the women of that period in the : Levant regularly wore henna. That lends much more weight to the henna : interpretation. Then .... it's Tanit/Anath. She hennaed. She : harquused. No question there. Spain was in the right climate zone to : grow henna. So .... other evidence in several forms supports the : interpretation of markings as henna. BUT ... if I saw the same piece : in Finland .... I'd have to interpret doubtful marks as crud, and : shoes that happen to show toe lines, because there would be no other : supporting evidence for henna. : : : : : : : I thought those were likely harquus, too. What do you mean by : : overpainted? : Not natural eyebrows .... either painted over with harquus paint or : indigo. : : : : : Again, I'm unsure that's henna. I did look at that picture but : : decided it wasn't. : : I'm talking about the OVERLEAF to 97, not the print on page 96. The : double color pic that crosses 98 and 99. : : : : : in the same way and in the same colors that the hands, and on the : : left angel, feet are. The hands and feet we can see clearly are : : white and the lines between fingers and toes are clear. : : Actually, I've seen many more pages from that manuscript (with the : angels), and many, though not all, of the angels have henna. There : are several variants of henna on these angels, and you can see black, : red, brown, fingertip and patterned henna on different angels. I : don't know if these are arbitrary assignments ... or illustrators were : swapping off pages, and one happened to really fancy henna. There's : considerable variation through the manuscript. : : : To make any of these judgements, you have to be able to support your : claim that it is or is not henna by more than just "it looks like". : That's where you have to really hit the books...... for botany, : historical descriptions, other art works, more pages in the : manuscript. : : I'd guess that I've gone through 8,000 books and periodicals, and : gotten 800 solid hits with single or multiple references for henna. : My book fetish is truely obscene .... even in high school, the one : poor lad who fancied me only offered to carry my books home from : school ONCE. Others despaired.
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